Thoughts on 416-8B,601-8D, 2404H build

[ckp]

Any 'fast' transients > 30-35 W will pop its wafer thin microphone based diaphragm and having never seen a schematic for any of its 3000 Hz XOs, don't know how much effort Altec invested ensuring it.

Would it be possible to design a crossover to use with the 601 in it's own cabinet and reduce the possibility of impending destruction? I don't have crossovers for these. Thank you

[GM]

Yes, using its 3 kHz XO* point with Linkwitz 4th order should do it, but without knowing the woofer's HF response it might leave an audible 'suck out' in the XO's BW.

As rare as it is, recommend contacting Werner to see if he knows its electronics and/or can do an autoformer variant, sonically the likeliest best option.

* corrected

[ckp]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd like to give it a go if you will. Do you mean 3 KHz XO point? I have some data that might be useful on the woofer. I hope you can read it. I have to make the files small as not to exceed the data limit.

4635 woofer.gif

[GM]

Yes, thanks for the correction! I'm currently forced to type from an unpleasant position, making typos galore and in haste to be done missed this one.

edit: Plot says 4635 woofer, so thoroughly confused and now that I know the 2404 recommends 3 kHz, are you wanting to just use the 2404 and leave the 3000H disconnected, ergo can be removed or.....?

[ckp]

I'm very sorry for the confusion. That is the serial number of the 601-8D. It is the woofer portion. Originally, I thought the 2404H would go between the 601-8D woofer and 3000 tweeter, sonically, and use the 3000 as UHF driver. Maybe not my best idea. So now I am going to put the 601-8Ds in their own enclosures. The brown cabinets in picture #3 in the first post. That is what I need to build crossovers for at this point. I'm going to scrap the original plan for which this thread was created and use a 416,414 and probably Radian 475 for that pair. I hope this clears things up a little. Thank you.

*edited

[GM]

OK, then unless someone knows the technical specs/parts for the Altec N3000, best to check w/ Werner and if he's of no help, then ideally need measurements of both drivers using REW or similar freeware.

What XO points are you planning for the 3 way?

[ckp]

I can measure the drivers in the 601s with REW.


On this site, it states the 9862 is crossed at 350Hz and 2500Hz. I'm in the process of putting these drivers together, so I can't measure them yet.


edit: I contacted Werner and asked him if he made them and he said he would. Subsequently, I mentioned that I was going to build a pair and was looking for data and I was also curious what a pair would cost. They are up there a little at over half a coin, but look real nice as you would expect. Having trouble loading pictures as usual. lol. He didn't offer any sage advice.

[ckp]

Finally figuring out how to post images.Here are a couple screen grabs. The driver is standing on end with the microphone 1 foot away. The source is the soundcard on my Macbook. Full range is the woofer. The extended frequencies are the tweeter.


601-35 Average by ckp37, on Flickr

601-36 Average by ckp37, on Flickr

edited post with images hosted at a different site

[GM]

Impressive extension for a 12", though meant tweeter horn measurements, but just remembered the original Duplex design article that tells all.

So if Werner can duplicate the autoformer N3000, then it should in theory protect the driver at modest levels, but any lower will depend on the speaker's eff. + how dynamic* your best recordings are and how loud the highest average listening level.

* this is the gotcha! It appears to be designed for +12 dB dynamic headroom Vs my best recordings having up to +30 dB = 10^(30/10) = 1 kW minus in room eff. just to handle 'fast' transients with most modern recordings 'supposedly' conforming to the HT's +20 dB = 10^(20/10) = 100 W

[ckp]

though meant tweeter horn measurements,

I don't understand this comment. The tweeters are in the images.


Most of what I listen to is of CD quality or better on a DAC. Some albums and reel to reel as well. I have low power tube amps. Although the tweeters are said to be fragile, I remember reading that one guy had them in his nightclub for years under serious duty without issue. I certaintly won't crank these real hard. Thank you